Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Hockey Hall of Fame, class of 2010

There's only one thing I can say, aside from the women's selections were well deserved. Dino's in, Pat Burns out? What the Hell?


sager said...

If only one NHLer could go in from this year's pool, Pavel Bure is probably my pick.

Joe Nieuwendyk, Pierre Turgeon, Doug Gilmour were all better choices than Ciccarelli.

Nothing against Dino Ciccarelli. I am not big on Aura and Mystique, those dancers in a nightclub, but with a Hall of Famer, usually there is a tipping point that tells you yes or no.

Ciccarelli? I can't see it. He scored 608 goals, sure, but remember that he played 40 per cent of his games against the Snorris Division in an era of inflated offence.

For instance, take 1981-82. Ciccarelli had 55 goals on a team whose division include a 56-point Leafs team and a 54-point Wings team. How many points did he rack up against those sucky bunch of sucks?

He also managed not to get a ring despite playing four seasons in Detroit during the 1990s, which has to be some kind of record.

Yet we hold it against Bure and Lindros that they didn't get a ring? Bure led a slackass Canucks team to within a hit goalpost of Game 7 overtime. How close did Ciccarelli ever get?

Keith Borkowsky said...


Cantankerous said...

Not picking Pat Burns is a cruel joke.
Come on, HOF committee have a heart.
Ciccarelli could have waited another year...or five.
Burns doesn't have that kind of time.
Why induct someone posthumously when it could have been done when they were still alive?

Does anyone else find it ironic two women were inducted even as the IOC continues to debate the inclusion of Women's hockey in the Olympics?

Also, on the night the new HOF inductees were announced, Paul Henderson's famed white jersey he wore scoring THE GOAL was auctioned off for apparently over one million dollars!
Henderson, of course, is the most famous non HOF player on the face of this earth.

Jb3 said...

RE: Henderson in the HHOF???

He was an average NHLer who scored a famous goal... How does that make one a Hall of Famer. Same thing about Ciccarelli - average player. I think we're to a point where the Hall is getting watered down and it's their own damn fault for allowing too many top end players in at the same time! You can't induct four players per year and expect them to be top line hall of famers.

Jets Return 2011 said...

Enough with the championships argument for players getting in or not getting in. Adam Burish won the Stanley Cup this year, so by some people's logic he is better than say Dale Hawerchuk.

I would love to see WHA players get acknowledged the way women do now. I still think Anders Hedberg deserves a chance at the Hall as do many who had their best years in that league. Don't forget the Winnipeg Jets were the only team to beat the vaunted Red Army in the 1970s. Something that not even the "great" Canadiens teams of that time could do.

sager said...

As a general point, you're on decent ground -- the Pro Football and Basketball Hall of Fame have been good about acknowledging AFL or ABA feats.

But Herschel Walker's USFL feats didn't help make him a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Just as a good-natured rebuttal, Anders Hedberg had 856 points in 751 WHA/NHL games.

Eric Lindros had 865 in 760 NHL games, many of which were in the Dead Puck Era. Lindros couldn't get in the HHOF, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for Hedberg, although I am well-aware he was awesome for the real Jets.

Actually, the Jets beat the Soviet National Team. That's even better!

Cantankerous said...

Jb3....I wasn't implying Paul Henderson was a HOF'er...far from it.
Take the Summit Series out of the equation, and nobody would ever thought twice about Henderson being an inductee.
Yet there are those who insist he should be inducted because one game and one moment.
That of course is silly.
Several players with otherwise modest careers had their moments on the big stage...remember Bucky Dent?
Still, there are people like stats quoting trivia savant Liam Maguire who champion Henderson's induction like it was a sacred cause.
And to top it off, Maguire opposed the induction of Tretiak. even though the Russian had a far more glittering overall career than Henderson.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for clarifying that Neate! I have that game on DVD but haven't watched it in a few years. Will have to pop it in at some point when the NHL returns to the 'Peg.

That is true that their point totals weren't quite as high overall as some others, especially considering their era, but someone like Cam Neely made it in (great player who unfortunately was hurt) when I personally don't think he had anymore merit than Nilsson or Hedberg, both of whom also played in Sweden and with the Swedish National Team (if we can give Tretiak props for his national performance, no doubt the Swedes deserve credit).

Anyways, it seems that arguably one of the most influential teams of the decade (the 70s Jets) are getting a raw deal. The team basically made it OK for teams to sign Europeans and was the blue print for the 1980s Oilers. It is unfortunate that the NHL ripped them apart before the 1979-80 season when they might have been able to compete for the Cup. Hockey in Winnipeg might have been forever changed too, and there would not have been a 15 year NHL absence that is getting close to wrapping up.

Anonymous said...

How can anyone take the HHOF seriously when they inducted Harold Ballard...as a builder!
Builder of WHAT?
Certainly not the Toronto Maple Leafs.
When he took over the team from Stafford Smythe, the Leafs began their long spiral downward.
The Leafs had some respectable teams in the 70's under Roger Neilson with the likes of Sittler, McDonald, Turnbull, Tiger Williams, Salming and Palmateer.
But in 1979, Ballard had the bright idea of bringing back Imlach who was long past it by then.
What followed was 13 years of lousy hockey, finishing .500 just once.
It was only after the old coot finally up and died did the team have a resurgence.
And for that the put this bastard in the hall along with Art Ross, Dick Irvine Sr. and Sam Pollack....right.

Kevin Glew said...

Interesting discussion. My Hall of Fame barometer involves asking myself if a player was ever one of the best three NHLers at his position for a 5 to 7-year stretch. Using that criteria, I wouldn't vote for Dino. But I would vote for Gilmour.

sager said...

Cool, thanks.

Which 5- to 7-year stretch was Gilmour better than all but two of Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman and Lafontaine?

He'll probably get in. Gilmour is a borderline case.

Anonymous said...

If they can put in guys like Bob Pulford and Clark Gilles you can damn well better believe there is room for Dino and Dougie.

sager said...

We would think so, eh?

Remember, expansion raises the bar, since there's more players. Pulford played in a six- to 12-team era, Gilmour in a 21- to 28-team era. That makes a difference. More competition.