tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post89342038186478190..comments2024-02-29T23:31:03.341-05:00Comments on Out Of Left Field: Senators attendance drop should raise red flagssagerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-36564496113546103712010-01-11T18:16:12.214-05:002010-01-11T18:16:12.214-05:00Hey guys I'm a journalism student at Carleton ...Hey guys I'm a journalism student at Carleton and I want to write a piece about the Scotiabank Place and its attendance issues, as well as other issues like ease of access to the stadium (related to the ONE ENTRANCE off the highway).<br />Would any of the contributors be willing to do an interview? (This piece is for class, so won't be published).<br />My email is icemo86@gmail.com if interested.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07403039823194521057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-73089335059300968232009-11-20T14:40:16.393-05:002009-11-20T14:40:16.393-05:00A couple of people made reference to Calgary's...A couple of people made reference to Calgary's run to the finals, and how the Red Mile spontaneously erupted. I would venture to say that perhaps something like that didn't occur in Ottawa mainly for the arena location. It's not that glamourous heading over to a suburban Boston Pizza for an after-party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-36903206171907963672009-11-19T14:32:06.047-05:002009-11-19T14:32:06.047-05:00Leeder has come out and said there are too many &#...Leeder has come out and said there are too many 'price points' and that's why people aren't going.<br /><br />No Cyril, people aren't going because you're charging too much for a mediocre product. Expect another 17,000ish crowd (or less) for the next few games while you puzzle over the fact your team of alleged superperformers has yet to beat an opponent of note...<br /><br />DougAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-63206047815333330852009-11-18T19:25:42.728-05:002009-11-18T19:25:42.728-05:00That's a good sign, unlike having 17,406 (1,10...That's a good sign, unlike having 17,406 (1,100 below a sellout) for the Leafs oon Tuesday.sagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-72609403265324553632009-11-18T19:16:03.581-05:002009-11-18T19:16:03.581-05:00Sens Store reopens in Orleans
"PLACE D'O...Sens Store reopens in Orleans<br /><br />"PLACE D'ORLEANS<br />The Sens Store will be closed for renovation until mid November. Please visit our kiosk located in the mall for more information. Capital Tickets will not be available until our renovation is completed. <br />Located on Main Level close to The Bay<br />Phone: 613.841.6854<br /><br />Monday to Saturday - 9:30 am to 9 pm<br />Sunday - 11 am to 5 pm "<br /><br />http://senators.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=49248Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-57104607698699514412009-11-13T16:30:46.135-05:002009-11-13T16:30:46.135-05:00You're entitled to that opinion, and I suppose...You're entitled to that opinion, and I suppose it was a cheap shot to Colombia and Peru. My point is that we in this country are now unable to support professional (and to a large degree, amateur) sport. We gloss over this with one-time "events". As for the Pan-Am Games, we'll see how it goes, and we'll have a story for it either way. If it's well attended, it's "proof" we're "world class". If it's not, well then, it's a "hockey country".<br /><br />Which is BS. The truth is all sports are "boring" and "unwatchable" much of the time. That's why you CAN'T sell it on the basis of wins and losses. You must entertain. And we don't. The marketing of hockey and most other sports in this country consists of SELLING TICKETS AND OPENING THE GATES AT 6:30. <br /><br />I shouldn't have made the crack about people not liking baseball because it required thinking. It<br />does require it, but my main point is we don't entertain fans (at great ticket costs to boot).<br /><br />As I say, all sports have a place and it's entertainment and fun that make people want to go. I'm not sure why we seem to shun sports in the good weather, but I'd rather not go down the road of belittling one sport to make my own favorite sound better. I'm not sure that's a valid argument, though it's an interesting idea: that even a "boring" sport could be "fed to us as "Canada's Game" for decades" and we'd blindly follow it.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-22974666393305591182009-11-13T10:37:49.069-05:002009-11-13T10:37:49.069-05:00Dave - You've had a couple of the worst commen...Dave - You've had a couple of the worst comments on here.<br /><br />Canadians don't like baseball because it requires thinking? How about it's boring as hell and because it hasn't been fed to us as "Canada's Game" for decades like it has been in the US. <br /><br />As for Toronto "winning" the Pan Am Games congrats on diminishing that accomplishment just because your cousin was robbed at knifepoint once in Colombia. That mentality is what contributes to minor league sports failing throughout Canada.PPPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18066807414688976482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-83943301309751398912009-11-13T01:32:14.788-05:002009-11-13T01:32:14.788-05:00Totally agree. Three teams in Ontario could defini...Totally agree. Three teams in Ontario could definitely work ... and here's hoping that one day the NHL actually has a commissioner!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-63506406423477311822009-11-12T19:29:36.658-05:002009-11-12T19:29:36.658-05:00Dennis, 1.1 million is a legit number; in fact it ...Dennis, 1.1 million is a legit number; in fact it might even be low. <br /><br />Just the official cities of Ottawa and Gatineau total about 1.05 million. Throw in Lanark County just to the southwest of Kanata and you're already over 1.1 million, without counting the southern portion of Renfrew County and parts of the Valley just east and south of Ottawa like Rockland and Kemptville. <br /><br />Within an hour's drive of Scotiabank Place, there are at least 1.2 to 1.3 million people.Jason Cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11582066240963611058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-85519972513361406192009-11-12T15:42:59.730-05:002009-11-12T15:42:59.730-05:00Fair enough. But how is it "misfortune" ...Fair enough. But how is it "misfortune" when the owners chose to own the team here? They asked for it, so to speak. <br /><br />It's been an uphill battle, always, for the Senators going up against the two Original Six teams. For the most part, they have done well, but there's a concern that they've given a little ground.<br /><br />Success does not move in a straight line, though. Also, for the media to ignore the team's debt load is not good.<br /><br />I would like to see the Senators thriving and to have 2 Southern Ontario franchises. It could work, although it will probably require a NHL commissioner.sagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-89646789060476812962009-11-12T15:36:38.237-05:002009-11-12T15:36:38.237-05:00If you want to criticize the fans in Ottawa, then ...If you want to criticize the fans in Ottawa, then I think its fair to look at the hockey fans league wide. The Senators have the misfortune of being sandwiched between two cities that have arguably the best fans in the NHL, so the bar in Ottawa is set pretty high. But what can you do? The Sens will never have the cushy situation that the Leafs or Habs do and I don't have a problem with that. What bothers me is when the fan support in Ottawa gets ripped on even though you have other "NHL cities" that have comparable attendance to the 67s.<br /><br />I also think that if the roles were reversed in the Flames' and Sens' recent Cup runs, then the fan reaction would also have been reversed. Calgary has had its share of problems and if you want to see that bandwagon fans exist in Ottawa too, you can look at the Sens' very first trip to the playoffs when the city went nuts.<br /><br />I just think that the Sens are faced with a lot of hurdles and while the situation in Ottawa isn't perfect and maybe they don't have the best fans in the league, they certainly don't have the worst. If the NHL had 30 teams playing in front of fans like the ones in Ottawa ... well, it would be doing much better than it is now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-4411326230662271132009-11-12T15:30:17.423-05:002009-11-12T15:30:17.423-05:00It is worth noting that the Senators' $4 milli...It is worth noting that the Senators' $4 million loss was on the team itself. I am always curious as to which revenues get put on the team's books, and which ones get put on the Arena's books. For instance, the new Bert's Bar - is that team revenue, or arena revenue? The team may have lost a few million, but the arena, for which the team is the anchor tenant, does very nicely.<br /><br />Oh, and I would love to know what map Forbes used to determine Ottawa's metro population at over 1.1 million. That is a very generously drawn circle, especially when you consider that most people in Gatineau consider themselves to be a suburb of Montreal. :-)Dennis Prousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01117649570711228161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-83649031174668912112009-11-12T13:12:43.719-05:002009-11-12T13:12:43.719-05:00It's probably apples-to-pears to compare to th...It's probably apples-to-pears to compare to the Thrashers and Panthers. Hockey is niche in those markets.<br /><br />The point with Calgary in 2004 vs. Ottawa in '07 stands. Pro sports teams are in the business of selling hope. Calgary got a little run and people abandoned themselves to the cause, and it was wonderful. That's part of being a fan (short for "fanatic," remember?).<br /><br />In Ottawa, everyone was wait-and-see. <br /><br />That's not a knock. The nature of fandom is changing ... Sophisticated statistical analysis (<i>Moneyball</i>) is moving more and more into the mainstream. Many more fans are well-read and they know all the "percentages," so perhaps they are less willing to go all in on a team.<br /><br />Pro sports has always expected people would root-root-root for the home team. There could be a re-evaluation of that thinking going on. I'm a huge Blue Jays fans, but I know their chances of making the playoffs, so I only went to 2 games last season.outofleftfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00483800070663314985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-16543184339091080702009-11-12T12:50:08.519-05:002009-11-12T12:50:08.519-05:00Great thread! While your main point may be valid -...Great thread! While your main point may be valid - low attendance to start off the season is concerning - if you step back and look at the big picture the Sens are doing just fine. Given all the turbulence of the last two years, it really is quite amazing the attendance numbers aren't any worse. On the ice they've had to deal with a coaching carousel, players fighting each other, goalies that can't make practice, star player trade demands and a team scrambling to play .500 hockey. If it hasn't been bad news, then they haven't had any news at all. Add to that the traditional laments of a bad economy, high ticket prices, a poorly located arena and a local population with a split allegiance dedicated to its two closest rivals and you have wonder how this team survives at all. How do you think the Thrashers or Predators would fare under these same conditions?<br /><br />I also think comparing the 07 Senators to the 04 Flames is unfair? Nobody predicted Calgary going that far and it was exciting for everyone to watch ... especially the fans in the city. Ottawa made the playoffs ten years in a row and everyone just became accustomed to a choke job in the first or second round.<br /><br />Ottawa's franchise may not be the envy of the NHL but the league would be wise to pursue cities with similar sports fans!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-65709586035793299862009-11-12T12:34:52.245-05:002009-11-12T12:34:52.245-05:00Anonymous is not a name, either.Anonymous is not a name, either.sagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-81879657507908694282009-11-12T12:14:34.352-05:002009-11-12T12:14:34.352-05:00Neate isn't a name. Fuck you asshole.Neate isn't a name. Fuck you asshole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-78384410335645973622009-11-12T12:14:31.948-05:002009-11-12T12:14:31.948-05:00Neate isn't a name. Fuck you asshole.Neate isn't a name. Fuck you asshole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-34702766351174983332009-11-12T12:08:38.131-05:002009-11-12T12:08:38.131-05:00Even if Ottawa's attendance drops 1,000+ a gam...Even if Ottawa's attendance drops 1,000+ a game, there attendance is still probably in the top 3rd of the league still, not bad for an area with barely over a million people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-71462815995278754952009-11-12T10:52:21.601-05:002009-11-12T10:52:21.601-05:00Thanks, David.
I did say it would be glib to say ...Thanks, David.<br /><br />I did say it would be glib to say they're on some kind of downward spiral.<br /><br />Fact of the matter is in the summer one paper here in particular was obvious as a 3-dollar bill about making an appeal to people to buy seasons for the Senators. Now attendance is down and it's lahdee dah, nothing to see here.sagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-69332515504186885602009-11-12T10:39:35.456-05:002009-11-12T10:39:35.456-05:00I don't disagree completely with your analysis...I don't disagree completely with your analysis of Ottawa. It does tend to be a place were people like to "follow the rules", whether that means not making too much noise after 11pm or clapping when they are told to do so.<br /><br />One thing that I think you give too little weight to in your analysis is the lag factor that occurs for pro sports. Most of last year's season ticket buyers bought before the 08-09 season started, before the recession hit and before the debacle that was last year's team. If this year's team turns out to be good and/or entertaining, it will take time to see an uptick in attendance.<br /><br />The other thing that I think you need to consider is that life has ups and downs. Even the Habs had times, after opening the Bell Centre, when they had trouble filling the arena and where people were speculating that they could be in financial trouble. This year the team is being sold for something like $400M+. The Senators may not be doing amazingly right now, but that does not mean that they are on some kind of death spiral. I lived in Calgary through the 80s and on the West Coast through the 90s. Both the Flames and Canucks had their ups and downs. They could be great one year and teetering on the abyss the next(esp. the Canucks), but both are still around and going strong. Personally, I don't see any reason why Ottawa can't keep going strong far into the future.<br /><br />Best Regards,<br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-90464743197121149332009-11-11T22:33:20.589-05:002009-11-11T22:33:20.589-05:00Good points. Do you mean it would have been good t...Good points. Do you mean it would have been good to compare with the attendance of other Canadian NHL teams? That's valid. Thing is, there's only so many hours in a day and <i>no one</i> in the paid media is writing about the Sens being down 1,200 people per game (and marking down tickets). I figured I was good just pointing it out.<br /><br />I don't see an exciting trade coming, by the way. They're up against the cap.<br /><br />What happens in Ottawa issagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08757652892056684490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-90068940779217282722009-11-11T22:23:19.368-05:002009-11-11T22:23:19.368-05:00Hi,
I understand the commentary that started this...Hi,<br /><br />I understand the commentary that started this and the different views of the comments and there are points to each of them. In the original posting I believe the largest gap was not including last years season along with the rest of the items listed. Most sports teams will have attendance drops because of issues on and off the field.<br /><br />When comparing sports in Canada to elsewhere there are huge differences. In Canada sports are not viewed the same as many other nations, here I would say we look at them much more as entertainment than anywhere else. The reason for this is, if its not entertaining then it suffers. In other places, high school football in the US for example its not just entertainment it is a part of their identity where they have arch rivals and insane levels of pressure on kids to perform (win at all cost). Even after years of losing seasons with bad teams they have fans. I would like to think that we have a better view but it certainly doesn't help sports as a business.<br /><br />Now is this good or bad I can't say. <br /><br />I have lived across Canada and have always cheered for the local teams. I'm in Ottawa now and I go to a few games, buy Sens gear and talk about the game at work. I have played hockey all my life and when I watch hockey I want to watch good hockey and luckily for me I was a Habs fan in the 70s, Edmonton in the 80's and a Sens fan from the 90's on. I watch Detroit, the Pens, even the Leafs but if the hockey isn't good I'm just as likely to be reading some blog about hockey as watching a game on TV or at the rink.<br /><br />I don't have any fear that Ottawa as a franchise is going under or looking to move away. But it has been pointed out several times before my note, the product/the game/the entertainment level is what is going to put people into the seats.<br /><br />I hope they make the playoffs, pull off an exciting trade and take out a higher ranked team because these things are part of my enjoyment of the game. The melodrama from last year's season and the Heatly debacle isn't fun. As a business all sports teams need to understand that fans want to have a reason to be fans.<br /><br />Go Sens GoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-81143804557571354902009-11-11T21:31:54.573-05:002009-11-11T21:31:54.573-05:00Eric, I was the one who posted the comment about t...Eric, I was the one who posted the comment about the NCC. It was not an accusation that the NCC forced the Sens to Kanata; it was a response to those who think that the Sens should have ignored the land they owned in Kanata and build downtown. That was a non-starter even if they were inclined to do so since the NCC owned all available land large enough for a development of that size and there was no way they would ever sell to a private enterprise.Jason Cormierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11582066240963611058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-48004606530185627662009-11-11T20:12:36.744-05:002009-11-11T20:12:36.744-05:00Thank you Dennis, we truly DON'T support hocke...Thank you Dennis, we truly DON'T support hockey the way other countries support all levels of their favorite sports. We are not a sporting nation. If we were, we'd just GO TO THE GAMES. At all levels. And in all seasons. Our nation's inferiority complex has us scrambling for excuses, lest we be considered "minor-league", or worst of all, not seen to be "world class". But hell, we don't even show up for minor-league. And so we satisfy our need for prestige with one-time second tier "events" like the Pan-Am Games, which as one pundit observed: Toronto had "won" over Lima and Bogota (a city my cousin was once robbed at knife-point) and which WINNIPEG had already hosted TWICE. (Speaking of which, is there anything more awkward looking than a Dalton McGuinty-led politician-hug celebration - makes Brady Bunch sibling hugs and the run-of-the-mill man-hugs pale in comparison.....)Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16538424.post-77113759757402419172009-11-11T20:12:35.167-05:002009-11-11T20:12:35.167-05:00Thank you Dennis, we truly DON'T support hocke...Thank you Dennis, we truly DON'T support hockey the way other countries support all levels of their favorite sports. We are not a sporting nation. If we were, we'd just GO TO THE GAMES. At all levels. And in all seasons. Our nation's inferiority complex has us scrambling for excuses, lest we be considered "minor-league", or worst of all, not seen to be "world class". But hell, we don't even show up for minor-league. And so we satisfy our need for prestige with one-time second tier "events" like the Pan-Am Games, which as one pundit observed: Toronto had "won" over Lima and Bogota (a city my cousin was once robbed at knife-point) and which WINNIPEG had already hosted TWICE. (Speaking of which, is there anything more awkward looking than a Dalton McGuinty-led politician-hug celebration - makes Brady Bunch sibling hugs and the run-of-the-mill man-hugs pale in comparison.....)Davenoreply@blogger.com